NC superintendent candidate Jen Mangrum and Catherine Truitt on policy

Truitt: No matter how much money we’ve spent or not spent, and no matter which party has been in charge, we haven’t moved the needle on student achievement since the ’90s.

I wish that Judge Manning (Judge Howard Manning issued the Leandro ruling) would have met with the legislature before he issued the $400 million request because the judge cannot legislate this from the bench.

If we’re going to really do the work of Leandro, we have to have honest conversations about achievement and funding in our state. I do think there are a lot of really solid recommendations in that report, and that report is very clear that just throwing more money at this issue is not going to solve the problem.

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Mangrum: I would absolutely advocate that we use the Leandro Case as our guideline and our playbook for how to bring our schools up to par. And the thing to remember is that that money is just to get us to a place where our school systems are more equitable between them, but that’s not even talking about how we become the top state in terms of education like we once were.

I think instead of calling it funding, we should be talking about investing. We should have nurses in every school. They should have social workers. Teachers should have the materials they need so that they can teach creatively and impose critical thinking. I think we need to pay teachers at the national average. The pandemic is only highlighting all of those issues.

I’m completely behind Leandro. It frustrates me that a judge can make a ruling and say how much money should be put into schools and the General Assembly can just ignore it, but that’s what they’re doing.

Teaching history’s “hard truths”

Mangrum: I do believe that our social studies curriculum needs to be more inclusive. It’s not even history if we don’t know what all the stakeholders were thinking. I think primary sources are such an excellent way to teach history because it’s not telling kids anything, it’s given them sources of information from the time period from multiple perspectives that they can critically think and generate their own thoughts and ideas around history.

I also agree that are typical social studies materials, whether it be textbooks or children’s books, leave out the stories of people of color, of the advances they’ve made, of their contributions to society. So what I would like to see is a more inclusive social studies curriculum that told stories from multiple perspectives that asked kids to question what they’re reading and what they’re seeing.

Truitt: The hard truths of history for me always go back to our Constitution when it says that all men are created equal, and I think it’s a hard truth knowing that that statement at the time did not apply to women nor slaves.

I also think it’s very important that we never do revisionist history or take historical events out of context. It’s very important to say that while absolutely that did not apply to slaves that also slavery was a very common practice all over the world, including in Africa. And that doesn’t make it right. But at the time that’s the cultural context in which we’re dealing.

I also know that there are lots of groups that feel left out of the standards we have currently. I know that the Trail of Tears, for example, is not taught in North Carolina, and it obviously needs to be.

More: Cooper announces NC schools can return younger students full-time next month

Charter school stance 

USA Today Network: North Carolina continues to see an increasing number of charter schools since the cap of 100 was lifted in 2012. What role do you believe charter schools have in NC’s education landscape and how would you look to impact charter schools as state superintendent?

Truitt: I don’t have a problem at all with charter school expansion. I think that as long as we keep in mind that it’s the State Board of Ed that holds the charter, and the State Board of Ed has the power to both open and closed charter schools.

They can refuse to open charter schools that do not show how they can provide transportation to students who would not be able to get to the charter school, as well as provide nutrition for kids who need those services from schools.

Charter schools are a key part of school choice. I would love to see more collaboration between our districts and our charter schools and our district school leadership and our charter school leaders.

Mangrum: We have charter schools that are successful, and we have charter schools that aren’t. In order to make sure that our children are getting a quality education, charter schools need to move under the purview of districts.

They need policies that govern them, that keep them from closing in the middle of the night, that keep them from not giving the kids all the resources they need. If they don’t provide lunch, if they don’t provide transportation, if they don’t serve English language learners, if they don’t serve children with special needs, then they’re in my mind selecting their students and they’re not being a true public school.

I think that charter schools that have these great innovations, we need to learn from them, and we need to move them into the school district, so there’s some oversight and accountability.

Teacher pay changes

USA Today Network: How should teacher salaries change over the course of their careers to best support the profession?  

Mangrum: Recruiting good teachers is so important. As a university professor, I’ve watched my introduction class dropped from over 200 students about 50 to 60 students. I know that we need to recruit really good people into the profession. We have to make sure that we’re giving a salary that will get the attention of young people and encourage them to become teachers.

When a teacher gets more experience is when their salary really slows down. It’s hard to manage a family with two or three children on just a teacher salary. We can’t solve everything. Teachers will never make top dollar, but if we can get to the national average, that would be attractive.

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Area teachers, parents and students participated in the “Our Schools Deserve Funds Now” protest at Vance Memorial in downtown Asheville January 15, 2020. The rally was organized by the Asheville Association of Educators. (Photo: Angela Wilhelm/Asheville Citizen Times)

Truitt: My issue is not necessarily with the starting salary for teachers. I think it’s also important to look at the total compensation (including non-salary benefits) when discussing teacher pay. 

I think that my issue is that in order to encourage teachers to stay in the profession after pay was frozen during the recession, we had to front-load salaries in the first 12 years of a teacher’s career.

I am a big proponent of advanced teaching roles. I would like to see that program expanded it’s an opt-in program that allows teachers to be paid more for extra responsibility for leadership roles in the classroom so that they don’t have to leave teaching in order to move up a ladder in their career.

Bridging the urban-rural gap

USA Today Network: Even before the pandemic, researchers said North Carolina’s rural education was in “a dire situation.” No state besides Texas has more rural students than North Carolina, yet our state’s rural students rank 34th in math and reading. As state superintendent, what can you do to improve rural education?

North Carolina teaches more rural students than any other state but Texas. (Photo: Courtesy of Toby Burrell)

Truitt: There’s first of all, digital inclusion. In rural counties, we’re probably not going to get more providers to provide last-mile service in our rural communities, so we have to find other ways.

One of the most important things that we can do in rural counties is finally cracked the nut on teacher recruitment and retention in remote places in our state. We have to think out of the box.

There are lots of opportunities that don’t involve the state only solving these problems, I do believe that there has to be a joint effort with other nonprofits, for-profit corporations and philanthropy.

Mangrum: If we can put a missile across the world within 3 feet, we can put broadband in rural North Carolina. So, we need to work on the laws and the funding to get that done. Even if we’re not doing remote learning, I see the internet as a necessity for people now. 

I also mentioned that I want to be physically present in rural schools. The districts that I’ve talked to feel very left out sometimes in North Carolina, particularly the far west and the northesast. So, I’m gonna make it my mission to make sure that I’m there physically and supporting them in any way that I can.